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No Real Recourse for Airport Noise

There's little residents can do when it comes to pilots disrupting your quiet time.

Several times in the last few weeks I’ve actually jumped from the sound of low-flying airplanes coming into the at night.

The sound rocks the house for just a few minutes as the fly-folk decide that it’s OK to disrupt others with their loud engines flying in a bit too low for my tastes – knowing there isn’t a darn thing anyone can do about it beyond placing a complaint or waving a fist in the air.

Both have about the same impact.

I’ll admit there appears to be fewer planes flying into the airport these days – probably the result of a bad economy and high fuel costs – but there’s still an ongoing problem with pilots who have little regard for quiet time.

Even more unsettling are two summer incidents that remind us how close we can come to tragedy.

On Wednesday night, a pilot and his passenger made an at the airport. The landing gear failed, and the plane’s wing was severely damaged during the landing, which required the services of emergency crews.

In June, a plane looped during a landing attempt and the

And in May 2010, a Piper Cherokee plane took off from the Livermore airport, clipped a treetop and crashed on a hill. Two people died in , although no one on the ground was injured.

Accidents happen. These three incidents don’t come close to what dangers lurk on the freeways. Yet the potential for a catastrophic disaster is more likely with airplanes involved. It’s a location where pilots are trained, therefore adding to the potential for mishaps.

And when you can’t even get pilots to respect noise guidelines, you wonder what else is being ignored. The problem with the Livermore Municipal Airport stem from a feeling of helplessness when it comes to something as simple as getting pilots to be more courteous when coming into the airport. 

And for those of us living in the flight paths, we wonder if those loud noises and late-night disruptions are coming from seasoned pilots or trainees. Is it just the noise we need to worry about, or the something more?

On Wednesday, I heard a plane coming in a little too low about the same time as the landing incident. I have no idea if the loud, low flying plane was the one in trouble, or just some person who swooped a little too low coming in for a landing.

What I do know is that it makes me nervous. 

The one thing I thought we had some control over was keeping the noise down during the night. Unfortunately, there isn’t a single punitive thing people can do about the noise coming from personal aircraft, and more likely, business jets flying in at all hours.

The airport has no control over aircraft once the craft is airborne because then it becomes the business of the Federal Aviation Administration. It is not within the City of Livermore’s power to impose noise-related regulations, curfews or penalties to those pilots who want to rattle windows during normal sleep times.

But that doesn’t mean that the airport staff can't nicely ask them to stop. They call it a “Voluntary Restraint from Night Flying” policy that respectfully requests pilots to avoid flying between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. You can call in your complaints at 925-373-5050. Or you can even go online.

The staff then dutifully places the information into reports. They notify the FAA of those individuals who keep offending. And supposedly, the FAA issues a more stern response.

But the bottom line is that there are no teeth to the bite.

So we can wave our fists, file our complaints and move on with our lives. And hope that the worst thing residents have to endure will be a few loud noises.

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Rich Buckley September 5, 2011 at 04:26 pm
Get the folks at "LACG" on the case. I can't find their link but this would give them a constructive issue that they might elevate to a national cause.
Trevor Tooze September 6, 2011 at 01:10 am
Why, when a local airport is built, such as Livermore, Concord, Hayward etc. don't they make a "no build zone" for homes? There is a need for this kind of airport, for many reasons. That way, we would not have the homeowners, that do not think through their choice of purchase, complain. when noise of landing aircraft interferes with their TV viewing. They might want to try living within 30 miles of LAX and SFO, where nobody would listen to their concerns.
Kate Roza September 6, 2011 at 10:34 am
Susan, I feel for you. My family and I decided to build a house just opposite the 580 under the assumption that the cars and trucks (especially the truck!) would stop driving after about 9:30 at night, and not start again until 8:00 in the morning. They haven't. Even worse, they continue to drive on the weekends!
You go, girl!!
Rich Buckley September 6, 2011 at 11:09 am
Trevor, That's a valid issue for sure and is part of the Livermore Airport Master Plan http://tiny.cc/u8ztg 
There is just such a restriction on our airport. I love aviation so my heart is sympathetic to solving its problems. The problem is accelerated rapid changes thrust upon community airports. For the past 15-20 years home buyers are told of airport operations before buying. But that's a mere glimpse into a snapshot of time.  Airport uses are under major, vital, powerful, politically seductive, constant energy to evolve, modernize, and perhaps worst of all, now facing common place small transport, transition over to jet-turbine power. Quieter props are suddenly all replaced by noise jets. Big Metro airports and aircraft manufactures lobby for airports to accommodate just a few more feet of runway, just a few more, just another little bit more until voilà, little Orange County Airport is then morphed into a destination of choice, with scheduled daily service.  No elected official I've ever met can resist those pressures. The airstrip in Carmel Valley perhaps being the only exception I've seen, and they have Monterey as their back up. Scott Valley said no to their old airport and sold it off to real estate development.  Get political candidates to agree to rewrite airport mission statements around the Federal Grant money to press for quiet engine technologies and you create political legs to seriously get out ahead of the issue.     
Marie September 6, 2011 at 04:27 pm
You expected trucks to stop driving after 9:30 at night, and not start until 8am in the morning? Where are you from? You surely know what happens when one assumes.
People never cease to amaze me.
Kathy September 6, 2011 at 06:14 pm
I agree with you, Trevor. When I was in high school (25 years ago), we lived right near the airport and I remember back then hearing the very loud planes flying overhead. My dad knew, living by the airport meant you'd hear the planes. Nothing has really changed since then, except now people that buy houses near the airport complain about the noise from planes that fly into the airport. Back then, we even had the air show that went on every year.
Kathy September 6, 2011 at 06:16 pm
What? I have never in my life assumed traffic, especially trucks, would stop driving between 9:30 p.m. and 8:00 a.m. Kate, your reply is so ridiculous it's almost comical.
Rich Buckley September 6, 2011 at 08:01 pm
Your father sounds like a tolerant and forgiving sort and a great neighbor. There have been some pretty sophisticated noise studies on the Livermore Airport. One issue is the incremental but quick transition from props to turbines, quiet to noisier over the past few years. Then followed by the seductive and hard to resist political changes providing "upgraded" facilities to jet-ports are approved: http://tiny.cc/anl16 The greater noise effects a 45-degree angle off the aircraft on take offs especially, not landing. If you are on the landing approach side there would be less impact than on the take off end, for any given jet port operations. I'm trying to find noise studies on line that support my ramblings, so I'm open to withdraw my statements. I think they are right however.
a local citizen September 7, 2011 at 12:37 am
Pilots can use quiet flying techniques if they choose to be considerate of others. The flight schools can choose to teach these techniques if they would consider others as well.
If any aircraft flies in after 10PM and before 6AM please call 925 373-5050. This needs to be recorded in the complaint log. You do not have to give your address or name.
Mary September 9, 2011 at 08:35 pm
Just make certain the airplane is actually landing at Livermore and isn't a jet flying to Oakland or SFO. But why let facts get in the way of you whining about something?
Mary September 9, 2011 at 08:47 pm
When the big earthquake comes and they are bringing in supplies, food, and medical assistance into the Livermore Airport, I'll bet you won't be whining about the Livermore Airport then.
Or if a brush fire on the hill is encroaching on homes and the CDF planes land at Livermore to refuel (instead of having to fly all the way to Hayward), don't be whining about the airport then. The Livermore Airport provides jobs, tax revenue, is the home base for many emergency organizations, provides local entertainment (WW2 planes on Memorial Day for example), brings in business people into the Tri-Valley, etc. We are lucky to have it. If you don't want to listen to the planes land, don't live under their landing patterns.
a local citizen September 9, 2011 at 08:56 pm
Mary you must be having a bad day. Jets can not use quiet flying techniques. There's some facts for you. However they can be good neighbors and not fly into the airport after 10PM and before 6AM.
Mary September 9, 2011 at 09:51 pm
I never said anything about jets and quiet flying techniques (and the word is cannot, not can not). You don't do well with punctuation or grammar either.
What exactly is a "quiet flying technique" - turning off their engines as they approach the airport and gliding in? Are you a licensed pilot in addition to being an expert in city government? I just said that if people are going to call the Livermore Airport hotline and complain about a noisy plane overhead that you should make sure it's actually landing at Livermore. Goodbye, a local citizen, you and I can agree to disagree on almost everything.
a local citizen September 9, 2011 at 10:46 pm
Mary I hope you have a better day tomorrow. Maybe then, you will stop attacking people. You seem to be a very unhappy person.
a local citizen September 9, 2011 at 11:49 pm
Mary this is for you. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cannot
Cannot can be spelled both ways. You can not say that's incorrect.
Trevor Tooze September 10, 2011 at 03:07 am
Good for you Mary, I share your sentiments exactly. My earlier comment, did at least get a civilized answer from Rich Buckley. Thank you Rich
Cindy September 11, 2011 at 08:37 pm
This is another example of poor journalism trying to incite fear among people that do not understand aviation.
You make the statement, "Even more unsettling are two summer incidents that remind us how close we can come to tragedy." I wonder how small aircraft with a problem with it's landing gear could possibly be a "tragedy" for the nearby residents? As for the plane that ground looped, do you even know what that is? Again, this is an event that happened upon landing and local residents were in no way in danger. And last, obviously, you did not even take the time read the link about the Cherokee in 2010. It DID NOT depart from Livermore. It took off from Auburn and was enroute to the San Carlos airport. The NTSB did not find any mechanical issues with the aircraft and this accident was pilot error. Yes, pilots make mistakes. I truly feel though you are safer from the airplanes above, than the distracted and drunk drivers that abound on the roads. It is a shame that more articles are not written about all of the good the pilots do by donating their time and fuel to introduce children to aviation through the EAA and The Young Eagles, by flying a cancer patient to their treatments through Angel Flight or, by flying rescued animals to safety through Wings of Rescue.
Cherry September 11, 2011 at 08:43 pm
THIS IS NOT JOURNALISM IT IS AN OPINION!
Rich Buckley September 11, 2011 at 11:39 pm
Cindy, If my choices are to opt for smart journalism run in politically slanted hard print newspapers that then take weeks to run a reply if at all, or dumb journalism that is open to all public comments and instantaneous feed back, I opt for the latter even still. 
I love aviation and my heart is in helping address its problems. I think the noise issues and airport management philosophies are huge, important issues for the upcoming elections. I'm glad Susan dared to charge in where angles fear......  Scores of outlying airports have a choice to organize to reach solutions that serve human daily needs in our normal daily living as well as business and emergency response.  Getting a community on board starts with a revised airport mission statement that circles the great corporate energies back upon corporate America to rethink and elevate their investment priorities to meet our human daily living essentials through quiet engine technologies and enhanced short field and take off designs.  Congressional candidates only then align with common community residential interest.  We do not have to settle for yesterday's science. Turn politics around on itself and start a movement.
Cindy September 11, 2011 at 11:44 pm
To Cheryl....According to Susan's own bio..".Livermore's Susan Young is a veteran reporter/columnist and president of the Television Critics Association. Her articles appear in national publications including People, Variety and msnbc.com". IMHO this makes her a journalist and held to a higher principal of responsibility and accountability.
To Rich -- Airport noise is old news. The airport was here long before most residents moved into the pattern. Get over it. My response targeted to Susan's claims over "how close we can come to tragedy." I hate drama and how it incites people that just do not understand.
Rich Buckley September 12, 2011 at 12:16 am
Cindy, Re "Airport noise is old news. The airport was here long before most residents moved into the pattern. Get over it." Your own response seems callous as opposed to dramatic. I think I'm preferring the dramatic if I have a choice. Getting over what? Getting over a narrow notion that a barking dog thereby justifies all barking dogs. I could be wrong but I think your path is part of our problem not our solution.
Cindy September 12, 2011 at 12:30 am
To Rich...If the barking dog was there when you moved in and you knew about it, well???? The airport isn't moving. When I bought my home 13 years ago, there was a disclosure that I was in the Livermore Airport's vicinity. DUH! And yes, I am callous to stupidity.
Cindy September 12, 2011 at 12:40 am
Also to Rich...the majority of my response to "the author's" article was about her accusations about the "potential tragedies" of the local airport and her inaccurate reporting and also inciting unecessary stress to the readers.......
a local citizen September 12, 2011 at 12:40 pm
This is an "Opinion" column. Susan is writing exactly how this column should be written as an "Opinion". Her "Opinion". That is exactly what she was hired to do.
Rich Buckley September 12, 2011 at 01:50 pm
Cindy, You have apparently concurred your fears in your own way which sets you free ...... I personally need information and seek eternal vigilance.
American Exceptionalism, http://tiny.cc/td1p4 unleashed to design and develop quiet engine technologies for fast, long range, and short range craft with short field take off and landing designs is my path to freedom. The starting point for me is not to roll over and accept all changes to the airport imposed by outside corporate powers of unknown origin, as a good thing. That one dog barks does not justify allowing any number of dogs to be brought in to bark; that one power plant is approved, is not an okay for any power plant modifications to be deployed. One car being repaired is not a moral or legal approval to bring in any number of vehicles for repair. The politicly irresistible forces that drive the dynamics of our local airport constantly change and must be kept focused with a high priority assigned on what works for those who carry the burden of change. Amend the airport mission statement to join forces with other airports to push for hyper-quiet engine technologies.
Rich Buckley September 17, 2011 at 11:00 am
I'm not sure what the formal definition of a ground loop is, but I've always settled for this definition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqGW9MIH3aE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
a local citizen September 17, 2011 at 12:03 pm
@Cindy,
This is an "Opinion" article. It clearly states that at the top of the column. As a columnist they may use their personal opinion. If they are assuming a role as a reporter they will be objective, cultivate sources for what they report and be unbiased It amazes me how many people reading the Patch miss the word "Opinion" at the top of the article.
Matt Bowers April 11, 2012 at 01:14 pm
Matt Bowers
Aircraft passenger. Aircraft Owner. Flight Instructor. Over 60% of all noise complaints at KLVK come from a single home in Pleasanton! An opinion would be "I hate people who do anything I don't". But when so-called opinion is corrected by facts, they should be changed. - There is no such thing as a "jet port". - There are no "low flying" aircraft at Livermore (KLVK). They climb at Vy=MAXIMUM rate of climb. They can't climb any faster. They generally turn off well before getting to the first house in Pleasanton. - The traffic pattern is 1000' above the ground. The primary pattern is over Costco, where there are no homes. The secondary pattern to the south is inside Stanley, over the gravel pits. No homes. - Standing at the street, right next to the airport, the aircraft noise is not loud. It certainly can't "shake the house" thousands of feet below a plane. If you bought double pane windows you probably wouldn't even hear them at all. - Pilots are not in wanton disregard of your peace and quiet. It is simply not possible to alter their behaviour in any what that would please you. We cannot land any other place besides the airport. We cannot park the plane in the sky and climb up and down to embark or disembark. - If you are coming home from visiting your relatives, you get home when you can. You don't stay at a hotel for another night, missing work the next day, etc just to arrive in the alloted time set by Susan or Rich.
Matt Bowers April 11, 2012 at 01:15 pm
- The landing gear not coming down is a simple mechanical problem for which he "declared an emergency" wherein they stop others from landing and dispatch "emergency crews" just-in-case. It's no big deal and endangered no one except those in the aircraft.
- A ground loop is about like your fender-bender. Just a landing mishap. It endangered no one but the pilot. - The couple killed when they hit the hilltop near Byron had nothing to do with Livermore or Pleasanton or the airport. They endangered no one but themselves. They flew low and into a cloud, then the hilltop. There are a half dozen such crashes by cars on nearby Altamont Pass every day, which actually do endanger other drivers. Maybe ban cars? - I once got a complaint letter about landing after 10pm. I had pulled the engine to idle while at 11,000 feet, in a small 4-seat Cessna. Gliding all the way to the ground. No noise at all. This proves that the complainers are actually just reviewing online flight logs and then filing the complaints.
a local citizen April 11, 2012 at 03:10 pm
When did the Copperhill Neighborhood http://karencrowsonhomes.com/copperhill-neighborhood-livermore-ca-94550 and http://www.sheahomes.com/community/montage-ivy/directions not become homes by Costco?
Do you teach or talk to your students about quiet flying techniques? Again, this is an Opinion column not a reporter's column. Two different things.
Note Article
Just a short thought to get the word out quickly about anything in your neighborhood.
Share something with your neighbors. Write a new post... What's up? Make an announcement, speak your mind, or sell something
Nika Megino (Editor) June 17, 2013 at 10:59 am
Hi Christian! Sorry for the trouble! I've gone in and reapproved your posts. I did, however, deleteRead More the duplicates. Please let me know if you have any more trouble with posting, and again, sorry for the inconvenience with our Spambot!
Christian Holm June 17, 2013 at 04:04 pm
Thanks, Nika! I truly appreciate your efforts. I just wish the software would get fixed.
Bridget Carney June 15, 2013 at 10:10 pm
Hi Penelope! I am interested in finding out more about your puppies. Please e-mail me atRead More bridget.carney@gmail.com
DeAnna Senft McDaid June 13, 2013 at 07:32 pm
thank you Lauren
Cindy Eckel June 14, 2013 at 08:01 am
Did you try 'Pleasanton Rentals' in Pleasanton...I know you asked for Livermore but this place hasRead More it all!
DeAnna Senft McDaid June 14, 2013 at 12:44 pm
Thank you Cindy I'll give them a call. apprecitate you taking the time.
Abby and Buddy
Beatrice Karnes June 13, 2013 at 08:48 am
They are beautiful and you described them so well! I hope that someone steps forward quickly! (IRead More have my quota of cats already.)
TrueRealist June 12, 2013 at 06:35 pm
It isn't up to the gov. to help raise your kids. The stork didn't drop the kid off unexpectedly. IfRead More you can't afford kids then don't have them.
barbieann June 13, 2013 at 08:39 am
Wow, so quick to jump to conclusions and judge. Maybe T.G. BUYS the child's lunch. Every schoolRead More sells hot lunch every day. At the majority of our schools, more lunches are bought than given for free.
DeAnna Senft McDaid June 13, 2013 at 12:43 pm
The schools give us 2 options as parents. 1. Buying lunches on campus or 2. Send them with a lunch.Read More Clearly the author of this chose number 1 and the school was OUT leaving the child with NO 3rd option. Shame on that school.
Jason Morgan June 9, 2013 at 09:33 pm
A great issue! However, the rodeo is nothing but animal cruelty wrapped up as "tradition"Read More and "entertainment". Why would the animal's welfare become a concern now? Rodeo performers have been documented beating, kicking, and shocking normally docile cows and horses in chutes and holding pens. "Bucking broncos" and steers are provoked with electric prods, sharp sticks, caustic ointments, and the pinching "bucking" strap, which is what really makes them jump, they are not "wild" and "dangerous" . The cowboys earn points by spurring the bucking horse. I have seen them up close and many are bleeding. Calves, roped when running, have their necks snapped back by the lasso, often resulting in neck and back injuries, bruises, broken bones, and internal bleeding. After their short and painful "careers," animals in rodeos are sent to the slaughterhouse. Dr. C.G. Haber, a veterinarian who spent 30 years as a federal meat inspector, describes the animals discarded from rodeos for slaughter as being "so extensively bruised that the only areas in which the skin was attached [to the flesh] was the head, neck, leg, and belly. I have seen animals with six to eight ribs broken from the spine and, at times, puncturing the lungs. I have seen as much as 2 to 3 gallons of free blood accumulated under the detached skin." Every national animal protection organization opposes rodeos because of their inherent cruelty. Don't feel bad everyone, I used to love the rodeo too. Before I knew better...
Bonbrwneyes June 10, 2013 at 09:13 pm
Something to consider and not pushing it aside because I feel its unimportant, but what I'd love toRead More have access to is how the riders that were hurt are doing today. Two bull riders got gored, one in the back and he was down and out for a bit and then obviously not "okay" as he stumbled out of the arena and then another that got his leg hurt and he couldn't get himself over the gate on his own. Left saturday's Rodeo hoping they were okay and would love follow up if at all possible. Thanks!
Danielle Nabozny June 8, 2013 at 03:00 pm
Thank you! That is what we want to know too. We have had more power outages this week than in theRead More 20+ years total that we have lived in this house!
Lynn June 8, 2013 at 07:03 pm
It would be nice to know, indeed. When my husband called to report the outage the recording saidRead More there were no outages in our area, which was clearly incorrect.
AT June 9, 2013 at 06:00 pm
I got the same thing, no outages when I called. I requested to be contacted by PG&E to explainRead More the problem. No call for that but I did get a "survey" call about their automated system. We have also lived here for 20+ years and never had this many outages.
Kari Hulac (Editor) June 8, 2013 at 12:48 pm
Great photos, Kathie..was the horse being evacuated?
Kathie Seymour-Sindicic June 8, 2013 at 12:54 pm
Thank you!! Yes this lady was evacuating this horse. It was the only one a saw be evacuated.